2009 Jun 24th

The Weekly Wednesday Wrap Up – Hoboken Condos Sales & Inventory for the Week of June 24th

The Hudson County MLS (I stand corrected) Will Not Allow Me To Post Links to Listings

Despite the tons of positive feedback I get from you – the consumer – about the usefulness of this blog, while I will continue to compile the statistics and other info I can no longer post the actual link.  I can, however, send it to you by email.  So as of today, I have the data for the info below but if you would like to see it in the old format, with the links, please send me an email at [email protected]  with the subject Wrap Up and I will email you the complete report today and each week.  I’m terribly sorry for the extra step and inconvenience. 


Hoboken Condos Activity Holds Steady

Studio & 1 Bedroom Hoboken Condos:

8 new listings.  Average list price $472,316.

197  total active – $418,426 average asking price. 104 average DOM.  Average asking price = $572 / sq ft.

3 dabos after 112 average Days On Market (DOM).

 1 sold Sold for  $355,000 in 177 days.  Sales price = $574/ sq ft. 

16 price reductions.


Two Bedroom Hoboken Condos:

 20 new listings – average list price $600,284.

311 total active –  $610,674 average asking price.  106 average DOM so far.  Average asking price = $800 / sq ft.  (lots of Maxwell and W units).

13 dabo’d.   103 average DOM

8 sold – $606,750 average price.   Average 111 DOM.  Average sales price = $468 / sq. ft.

 34 price reductions.

Three Bedroom and Larger Hoboken Condos:

75 active 3BR condos – $915,621 average asking price.  110 DOM so far.  Average asking price = $512/ sq ft.

7 new listings.  Average list price $1,179,725.

No dabos.

None sold.

3 price reductions.

Hoboken Condo Open Houses

If you are in the market for a Hoboken condo, our Hoboken Open House Google Map is your single best source for locating every open house in Hoboken. It’s posted on Friday every week. The info is updated weekly. If your google search seems to pull up an older version, click on the title link to get the most current map.   We are going to have to set up an “opt in” system for this, as well, as it also has links on it.  Stay tuned for more news!
  1. homeboken

    Is this the same post as last Wednesday? I’m confused.

  2. stan

    Thanks Lori. Keep up the good work.

    I agree with you if its priced right it moves. Unfortunately, priced right for the buyer is not always good for the seller.

    That 3 bedroom @ 904 jeff that closed sold for 32k less than purchased in 2005. Also 1100 adams went below purchase price in 2006 by 50k or so.

    Looks like more realtors are becoming successful in what you had pointed out previously, it has to be priced correctly to move, regardless of what you may have paid for it.

  3. WaitingInRent

    I think the data is off. Compared to last week numbers, it doesn’t sync up.

  4. homeboken

    Ahhh, good old information hoarding. The last bastion of the defeated.

    Kudos to Lori and Howard for trying to bring transparency to the market-place.

    Shame on the Liberty Board of Realtors. If they had any common sense, they would realize that the distribution of information will help clear the market and result in more transactions.

    This is why realtors get a bad rap. There are those that are willing to be open and honest. Willing to rely on their expertise to drum up business and assist their buyers/sellers get to a closing. These folks are experts and bring real value. They earn their fees.

    Then there are the vast majority that have no discenrable skills other than hoarding information. They think that they are entitled to a % of every transaction, whether they bring value or not. These are blood-suckers that have no positive benefit in the market place.

    I smell fear at the Liberty Board of Realtors. It’s time to thin the ranks.

  5. patk14

    Another clear sign that the real estate market in Hoboken is far from a bottom. Those in charge are afraid and thusly so should potential buyers. Well, it was nice while it lasted.

  6. nag

    I heard from a local realtor that one of the issues with Lori’s posting the links was that on the bottom of the page it says (I think automatically, right?), “This property brought to you by (insert name of realtor who accessed the MLS for the listing here).” Is this the feedback you are getting, Lori? Is there anyway to perhaps remove that info from the bottom of the linked page in order to appease the complainers and still provide this valuable information to prospective homebuyers?

    For what it’s worth, this has been the single most helpful website in my search to find my first home. Thank you so much.

  7. homeboken

    From the Liberty Board of Realtors Website –

    Our Mission
    The mission of the Liberty Board of REALTORS® is to maintain a healthy real estate marketplace for its members and the consumers interesting in buying and selling real property….


  8. Laki

    From their website:

    “The mission of the Liberty Board of REALTORS® is to maintain a healthy real estate marketplace for its members and the consumers interesting in buying and selling real property”

    What a bunch of crooks. Healthy market for consumers my a$$! Now allowing price discovery and transparency contradicts their mission as advertised. They should not be allowed to advertise by lying about their mission.

  9. frink

    Tell them how you feel about this.


  10. Ari

    Lori, maybe you’d like to provide an e-mail address for the powers that be so that those who check this blog can voice their frustration.

  11. TS

    Saying the Liberty Board of Realtors decision to control information is a sign that the market has farther to drop is a non sequitur. This has always been the case.

    Sorry guys, but you’ll need to search harder to find arguments for 40% price drops.

  12. Lori Turoff

    Everyone – I will email you asap. It’s hard the first day because I have to compile the list. Once it’s together, it will be on time again. Sorry for the delay. If you emailed me today and don’t have it by tomorrow, let me know. There may be a typo in your email address or something.
    Many thanks!

  13. patk14

    TS, you seem to know everything.

    How about this line of thinking? Lori had this site posting links for quite a while. The market heads steadily downward despite the industry reassuring everyone that there was not a bubble and that we should all rush out and buy/buy/buy. Lori’s site provides info refuting that stance for anyone with half a brain to interpret (I know you are having difficulty here). Realtors complain that it is costing them sales as buyers back out. They choose to ignore the ridiculous run-up in prices over the last decade and the fact that we are in one of the worst recessions in the last 100 years. Finally, Liberty steps in and forces Lori to stop posting the links. It actually hasn’t always been the case that Liberty has prevented the posting of the links as we had access to them just last week. Remember back that far? I know it is tough for you. When realtors go to these steps it shows just how out of touch they are and maybe, just maybe, is a sign that we have further to drop before equilibrium is reached. But I’m sure you are so much smarter and prices will rebound back to peak in the next 2 months.

  14. TS


    I certainly don’t know everything; if it appears that I think I do it’s because I only comment on things of which I have some degree of knowledge – unlike others here who have opinions on things they know, literally, nothing about or, like you, who just spin yarns and then assume it’s the truth.

    That’s a nice little story you have there, but you have absolutely no evidence to substantiate it – none. The realtor industry has always guarded its information – there has NEVER been transparency as far as I can remember. (They know this is the way to hold their position as being necessary.). Lori was trying to provide this transparency, and it was taken away. As to be expected.

    I will ignore the rest of your insults as it’s clear you can’t provide a sound argument but rely on rhetoric. And I will also ignore the fact you attribute views to me (“But I’m sure you are so much smarter and prices will rebound back to peak in the next 2 month”) which I don’t believe.

  15. homeboken

    Play nice…Regardless of our independent views on the economy/housing market/stock market etc, we all share one commonality. We read this blog because it presents unbiased, factual information. Lori just had one of her legs chopped off by the Hudson County MLS. We are all worse off because of this.

  16. Lori Turoff

    Just to clarify a few things:
    – Yesterday I said it was the Liberty Board of Realtors who told me I could not post the links because my broker told me the call came from the head of that organization. I was than told it was actually the Hudson County MLS that was prohibiting us from posting links. I’m unclear as to the difference between these two bodies. I have no idea who comprises the Hudson County MLS. Nothing was ever presented to me in writing.

    – The supposed reason we can’t post links is because the listings are supposed to show the listing agents name, agency and phone number. On the agent report I generate from the MLS computer system, I can see that. Unfortunately, they do not let us email that form because it contains information they don’t want the consumer to see – namely, the commission rate, the number of days the property has been on the market and perhaps a few other details I can’t recall. The “customer copy” is emailable so that is the one we use for the links. The people who control the MLS (and I have no idea who does this) have set the system up so that the customer copy does not contain the listing agent info. Of course, they could change this. They can make the forms say what ever they want.

    – I was told I can PAY for something called “IDX” which means internet data exchange. It is a search engine for properties that they will allow me to ‘frame’ into a page of my site. It would let readers search for listings but the data is not compiled or sorted in any form nor would I be able to take the data from this search engine, as opposed to the regular MLS computer search system, and provide the analysis I have been providing. They claim that the difference is that were you to do a serch with this search engine, the resulting listings would have the listing agent info.

    – So what I think they are afraid of is that you, the consumer, will think that because my name appears on the regular customer copies, I am the listing agent for every listing in Hudson county. I think my readers are smarter than that. I also think other agents out there are threatened by our success and find it easier to cut others down rather than work harder or think creatively themselves. We do innovative useful work that the consumer clearly wants and they complain about it. I’m sure many agents would prefer it if we just stuck to posting our photo on shopping carts and mailing postcards with recipes on them.

    – In my ideal world, the powers that be would work to make innovation, transparency and consumer satisfaction happen rather taking action that inhibits good agents and thwarts their efforts. I am not the only agent with a website with these links. I’m sure they will have to stop too. They would realize that the info can be posted through the IDX search results so all they really needed to do is add the same info to the customer copy. The substance is the same, just the form is different. I’m not afraid to have the listing agent info on the listings. My business is solid and my customers loyal. Other agents who are hurting see our success and rather than emulate it, seek to knock us down.

    In an ideal world, the Hudson County MLS could probably set up the consumer copy to add price changes right to the listing, show how many days the property has been listed and whether it was listed and withdrawn and relisted. Price per square foot appear right on the sheet so I wouldn’t have to calculate each one manually. They could show sales prices and include the percentage discount off of list. I could go on and on. Having attended national real estate technology conferences (Inman’s Real Estate Connect), I know that in other parts of the country like California and Seattle their MLS bodies are smart, innovative, creative, proactive and technologically sophisticated. I can only imagine what would happen and how it would help our buyers, our sellers, our real estate values, our community and make my job more fun if we could make that our goal here.

  17. Tiger

    Thanks a lot Lori, and sorry about the links.

    Guys, we still have the key data here compiled and ready thanks to Lori and Howard’s hard work. I know it’s nice to see actual listings, but at least we see the averages and I think Lori perfected her method of providing the most accurate analysis of the data.

    This is the real value, this is what we call analytics (or Business Intelligence), when you take data beyond transactions and numbers (MLS listings) and compile averages (Weekly Wednesday) and then provide trend analysis (Monthly / Quarterly wrap ups).

  18. stan

    Sorry to hear of the troubles Lori. The site is truly a great service. It aided potential sellers and buyers.

    Obviously your website was increasing transparency, which is not something desired by the HC mls.

    The market will continue to fall, regardless of whether the mls allows the info. It will stop falling when it gets in line with fundamentals. When or what they may be is open to debate. An increase in salary after bonuses have been slashed, is just noise. GS bonus increase, if it continues, is simply surviving firm taking the spoils. Until hiring picks up, no impetus to buy.

    The mls is trying to retain control of the information, so they can retain control of the market, and therefore keep themselves relevant/employed. Simple as that.

    They built the system, compile the data and have proprietary control over how it’s disseminated. Them’s are the breaks. It is certainly less efficient with little info, but the market will always win.

    and it certainly gave some buyers second thoughts. You bid x, see a similar place went for less, drop the bid.

  19. homeboken

    Is the issue really as simple as Lori’s contact information being on the bottom of the sheet? Other realtors are free to do the same thing Lori was doing. Assemble the information, present it in usable and valuable formats and turn it into a tool to market your business.

    Any realtor with access to MLS could do what Lori was doing? It requires work and the foresight to know that even though it is hard work and doesn’t generate immediate income, that in the end it will pay off with more volume.

    The problem with Hudson County realtors is that 90% of them think they should get their piece of the transaction while adding NO value. I can’t tell you how many times I see a 25 year old kids picture next to a listing that is easily 25-40% over-priced. Real Estate is a business, realtors that bring value should be rewarded with your listing or your potential buy.

    The last 5 years a monkey with a set of keys could earn a commission selling real estate in Hudson County. Now the competition is picked up a lot. 8 sales per week? How many realtors are in Hoboken? 100 – 200? The bottom half will be lucky to close 1 sale this year, and that is a good thing.

  20. Andy

    Homeboken, I am in agreement with you 100% about the Hudson County Realtors. I can’t begin to tell you the crooks I have encountered just in Hoboken. They have lied to me on repeated occasions or withheld information that would have been helpful to me in basing my home buying decision. All in the name of making the sale. Thats why I was so happy when I found Lori’s site because it was the facts out there for everyone to see and make their own judgements.

    Its a crock that the Hudson County MLS wants to restrict access to information. It is very clear that the listing agents want people who are viewing the MLS data to call their office directly in hopes of making the full commission not to mention influence a potential buyer by witholding pricing information. How is that not illegal or at very best unethical? The good realtors will survive because they understand market realities and have build good relationships with their clients. The rest I hope will find some other line of work possibly selling used cars.

  21. Lori

    Fortunately, I am having my best year ever. My business has increased every year.

    Yes,any realtor with a brain could do what we do.

    The site is not going away. The posts will continue as before. We will continue to give you what you want and need to make intelligent decisions about what is typically the biggest investment of your life. I take this event as a mere challenge to use technology, creativity and our smarts to continue to give you what you want and make this blog even better. Thank you all so very much.

  22. stan

    good to hear Lori. well deserved

    andy- that has been my main problem with the marketing of hosuing as an investment. If its an investment regulate it as such. There has to be transparancy

  23. Recent Buyer

    I would bet that the problem with Lori’s website is that the other realtor’s are getting heat from their clients. Why? Because I was one of those clients. I was able to get so much information from Lori’s website that I challenged my realtor and sometimes, even knew more than he did. Realtors prey on those non-savvy clients who don’t call the town themselves to get tax questions answered or contact listing agents to get accurate info on properties, etc. Now, even the not-so-savvy buyers can get their info right here in one forum. It’s not about Lori stealing business because the listings show her info. It’s about Lori stealing business because people can get their info on this site, and they make their realtor’s job a little more difficult. And, in many cases, the site probably recruits these folks as clients if their realtors can’t live up to the standard set by this site. Disclaimer: I did not switch to Lori ultimately because the unit I ended up buying I had already seen with my realtor.

  24. Andy

    Stan, absolutely. The mere fact that people will put good money behind something they don’t care to research or are unable to research is amazing to me. Sales people have the easiest job around – The public is naive, lazy, or as seen recently, both.

    Lori, I didn’t say it in my earlier post but I absolutely think you guys do an amazing job. If anyone I know is looking to buy in Hoboken I am sending them your way.

  25. Recent Buyer

    Interesting article…


  26. WaitingInRent

    Thanks for the website. I think the information you provide is very valuable and informative. I dislike companies blocking information that is needed to see what the market is doing. We as consumers will vote with our dollars. Although, I’m not currently looking to buy in the Hoboken market, looking at that market gives me ideas on the rest of Northern NJ. I will be mailing a letter of complaint to the Hudson County MLS. Thanks again for the service.

  27. potentialbuyer

    Does this mean that the open house map won’t be available any more?

  28. FAP

    SO wait in a stagnant housing market the people who have the listing don’t want as many people as possible to see their listing?

    Hey that’s fine by me I’m a prospective buyer and restricting access to listing reduces demand which in turn lowers prices for me. Of course it also lowers the number of sales and sale prices but hey that’s not my problem. Thanks MLS!

  29. Mark


    Keep up the good work. Your information is invaluable – even for someone who is currently not looking to buy.

    I am amazed that this unit sold for as much as it did:
    325 Willow listed at $649.9K on Jan 26; reduced to $639.9K on Mar 13; $629.9K on Apr 22; sold for $610K.

    I saw the unit way back in February and I wasn’t impressed. Good location but not a great layout. Seems that there is still hope for sellers!

  30. Willy

    The HC MLS is a private for-profit provider that “leases” its software/database to the membership of the NAR. The NAR has already lost a similar transparency case in court a few years ago. I’ll dig it up if I get the chance.

    I believe (as Lori and others suggest) that the HC MLS was getting an earful from its constituent users. Brokers are in a shark tank these days and 2/3 of them need to be eliminated. The market will eventually take care of all those inequalities.

    Meanwhile, the HC MLS is probably walking a fine line on fair use policy and the federal guidelines. Any resourceful group could probably bring them down on this particular issue. Lori and Howard aren’t likely to do it.

    On a side but related note, TS inadvertently introduced me to a site that relates to transparency in Hoboken real estate. It has been focused on Maxwell and the W. TS’s objection to that site leaves with equal cynicism about his/her interests in transparency here.

    My two bits as a property shopper.

  31. stan

    willy- whats the site?

  32. TS


    I am all for transparency and accurate reporting of facts. The problem is that the site you reference is full of rumors that are then assumed to be truths. Of course, you know that.

  33. Lori Turoff

    Sorry this post was accidently removed today. As I was being fined $50 a day for having posted the links and was up to $300 I was told I had to remove them going back 30 days and I inadvertently unpublished this post which does not have any MLS links.

    We will continue to do the Weekly Wrap Up and Open House Map. They just won’t contain the MLS links.

    We have created a distribution list and, if you request it we will email the version of the post with the links. I have been informed that we cannot post the info, but any agent is permitted to email the info so email it must be. In fact, that links come from the email message that is generated by the MLS computer program for customers.

    This has been incredibly time consuming and disturbing, to say the least. Again, thank you all for your support. I wish I could have answered each one of your beautiful emails individually but there were just too many. So please bear with us while we work this out.

    Customer service is nothing but honest and open information provided to the consumer to create a fair market place, no?

  34. FAP

    Lori, you are doing a great job. Your weekly updates are what is keeping me interested and informed about the Hoboken housing market. Without your updates and stats I’d probably be expecting a much larger price drop than has or likely will occur.

    Again thanks!

  35. Willy

    Without intent to advertise one site on another, I believe this is the one being discussed and in reading the archives I find it very frank and to the point; in fact accurate!

    I’m assuming that our friend TS thinks he/she knows a thing or two about IP addresses but the joke is actually on him/her (by design) so I will not respond to the comment directly!

  36. TS


    I’m sorry to hear the grief this has caused, but know that what you’re doing is not only appreciated by many but the right thing to do – not just ethically but for the health of free markets. The NAR, in my opinion, is a very problematic (verging on corrupt) organization, and needs changing from within. It seems there are few agents with the courage to challenge the system, so you truly are unique.

    As I see it, there are two basic abuses of information:
    1. Suppressing/controlling information flow
    2. Fabricating information

    For the most part, the NAR, when guilty, is guilty of 1. Cherry-picking data to release to the public (or at the very least controlling the information flow) and giving the power of disclosing comps to the people (agents) most interested in making a sale happen set up the potential for corruption.

    As for 2, in the era of blogging it seems rumor quickly becomes truth since the bloggers, under the cloak of anonymity, can fabricate stories with no repercussions and post under mutliple identities (thereby giving their rumors more seeming credibility since “everyone is saying it”). Occasionally the identities of such bloggers become known.

    This site, as I see it, helps prevent both these evils. Giving open access to information allows people to form their own opinions on the market and the value of a specific property. They can then go to their agent and get feedback on their views, rather than just being empty vessels that agents fill with their own views (or deceits).

    Likewise, when open access is given there is less room for wild speculation, conspiracy theories, and outright information fabrication.

    Those who speak out so vehemently against the wrong actions of the NAR and some agents who are less than forthcoming with information should reflect on where their actions fall in the scheme of abuses.

    Until the system changes Lori, enjoy the fact you stand out and are having a great year. I certainly refer anyone I know interested in purchasing to this site and you.

  37. Karen Brewer

    Im a realtor in Ct and was interested to see your post about the Hudson county MLS. My MLS is actually offering a direct feed that allows bloggers to search onthier own through the listings. It costs nothing extra since we’re paying for the data in our dues).
    Besides how is publishing the link really any different from emailing a listing…..stupid if you ask me. Im following you on the advice of Real estate Tomato and am enjoying doing so.

  38. Jim

    Keep the faith Lori, and honestly getting it via email is one less click for me anyway 😉

    If you made a website listing all of the things wrong with Hoboken and NJ you’d lock up the internet…

    Try not to think about it, and just make your slice of the World a little better.


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