2009 Aug 10th

What Condos Sold Where in Hoboken?

Location Location Location

We’ve had quite a bit of discussion on this board about location.  As I mentioned in a comment, I thought it would be interesting to see what has sold this year, and where it those condo units are located in Hoboken. 

So here you go – Part 1 of the analysis.  The map will show 1 br condos that sold for up to $345,000 (red dots) and 2 brs that sold for up to $499,000 (green dots) that have closed since January 1 this year.  I chose those price cut-offs as I believe they represent the lower priced 1 brs and 2 or more brs.

In a few days, I’ll add the more expensive units (1 brs over $345,000 and 2brs over $499,000).  For now, it is interesting to see where they cluster. 

To me, it looks like the 1 brs are located in the southwest section of town and along Washington and upper Park and 14th Street.  My explanation for this would be that either that is the less desirable part of town or that is where the older, less expensive housing stock is located.  Perhaps it is a combination of both.  The larger units tend to be scattered with the exception of the “9th Street corridor“.  Again, the reason for the lack of sales in the 9th St. corridor is that this is where the more expensive, newer units with parking and elevators tend to be located.  Draw your own conclusions.

To see the map, please complete the little form below.  Thanks.

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  1. Eric

    Looks like it’s the exact oposite of what someone (Interested?) said about the 7 block circle around the PATH having the most sales. Maybe they’re all the +345/499 listings?

  2. homeboken

    Lori – What time period do the sales on this map cover?

  3. lori

    Since 1/1/09. I will do the higher priced units later this week. They will be added to this map with “dots” inside the red or green place markers.

  4. Bill

    looks great

    since there is no direct MLS info – could we have the link directly to the google map page so we can see in a larger window?

  5. Bill

    I took a look at this place when it was listed over 500k last summer.(as a comp to my own place)

    The agent there asked me if I knew where real estate prices were headed.

    I said I didn’t know

    He then responded that he did know and that there were headed up…

    I got a nice chuckle out of that.

    http://hudson.fnismls.com/publink/LeftFrame.aspx?GUID=b00cd4d8-6a88-4878-8217-023820489b21&Report=Yes&f=l#nogo

  6. thoughts

    Thoughts –

    1. Without knowing the number of units listed in a particular area, the info in meaningless. For example, if 4 units were listed in an area and 4 units sold, it would be 100%. If 50 units were listed and 25 sold, it would be 50%. With this map, the area with 50 units (25 sold) looks like a home run….

    2. The closer you get to the PATH the more expensive the unit is – isn’t that location location location?

    3. If you look at the listings, the majority of units on the market are on the west and northwest side of Hoboken. When we looked at units to buy, there was a lot (lot) less choice really walking distance to the PATH. What does that say?

    Thoughts?

  7. rob

    Unit on 336 Bloomfield, pretty close to path 1000+ sq ft sold for 402K? only 400/sq ft? isnt it a desirable location…. ?

  8. lori

    Bill – when you see the map, each placemarker has a link to the MLS listing so I can’t post it publicly without the request form. Sorry.

    Thoughts – If you think it’s meaningless, don’t look at it. You’re free to devise a better system of you’re own. I think even if it’s not perfect, it has value. Sorry if you don’t.

  9. Bill

    “Bill – when you see the map, each placemarker has a link to the MLS listing so I can’t post it publicly without the request form. Sorry.”

    Yeah – cought that after my comment.

    One other request / comment

    you have to re log in every time you navigate away from the main page.

    Any way to fix that?

  10. lori

    Rob – I had seen 336 Bloom – showed it to some potential buyers. It needed a lot of work and it had a less-than-optimal layout. So while location is important, so it condition. Also, in small condo buildings, the state of the building (common areas, roof, heating system, etc.) and the financial strength of the condo association also often come into play.

  11. rob

    so you think it was the right price for the unit

  12. lori

    Absolutely. I was surprised it sold.

  13. thoughts

    Lori –

    Sorry if I insulted you – I think you do good work.

    That said, can you please explain the value to me without assuming that each area has the exact number of units for sale? Would that assumption be correct?

    In addition, can you comment on my other two comments please?

    Thoughts

  14. Bill

    thoughts

    point 2) That is not clear to me from this data. Even it it were , these are the low end sales so that would be like being the tallest midget

    point 3) tells you that all the new development happens out on the fringes – as expected.

    Your point that the only value to be had is within 7 blocks of the path is just misguided.

    Value is all relative.
    If you over pay to be close to the path, You haven’t created value for yourself.
    If you get a deal in the SW, you have.
    Everything will sell for the right price

  15. bz

    “To me, it looks like the 1 brs are located in the southwest section of town and along Washington and upper Park and 14th Street.”

    –There are many reasons for these locations to be the centers of low-end 1brs. But I wouldn’t call them less desirable locations. Buyers of these condos tend to be younger crowd that like short distance to Path or bus lines on Washington and people who like easy access to stores and restaurants. These youngsters can’t afford expensive units but want all the actions. These places are perfect to them or “desirable” to them.

    When we talk about desirability, I think we should look at the target group. To a family of 3-4 (parents in 30’s and 1 or 2 kids) or mid-aged people, the above mentioned locations are horrible. To start-out singles, young couples, money-savers, or whoever likes Hob’s actions, these are sort after. I know this because I have experience most of these and my home has been moved from uptown Washington when I was a single, to downtown Adams when I got marriage, and now heading to midtown/uptown new construction when my daughter is alomst 1. Each time the unit suits my needs well. The buyer groups in Hoboken are very distinct in nature, and this mile square does offer different housing to them with different price ranges. This is one of many reasons why Hoboken is so great. As time goes by, Hoboken households will become even more diverse.

    So try to make a blank statement or define which blocks (other than midtown Jackson which has projects around, and that’s out of the this discussion) are desirable or not seems wasting time to me.

  16. lori

    Apology accepted. I think all of us who live here have a pretty good idea of the density of units across Hoboken. There is a bit more new construction in what used to be the industrial northwest; there are some denser areas like the SkyClub and the 12 story buildings along Observer Highway but other than that, Hoboken housing is pretty evenly distributed across town. So in my mind, what is for sale should be pretty evenly distributed as well unless I have some reason to think otherwise. Sure, we could map what is for sale vs. what actually sold but that would simply be too time consuming. I can look at what sold and still get a pretty good idea of general trends from that alone.

    As for your other two comments:
    #2 – on what do you base that statement?

    #3 – again – on what do you base that statement? Have you looked at the listings and plotted them out? For what time period?

  17. thoughts

    so, you say:

    1. Assume that each area has the exact number of units for sale.

    2. Closer to the PATH is not more expensive.

    3.

  18. thoughts

    sorry –

    So, you say:

    1. Assume that each area has the exact number of units for sale.

    2. Closer to the PATH is not more expensive.

    3. There is the same choice closer to the PATH as anywhere else.

    I’m sorry – but my experience does not indicate the foregoing. That’s all I can say.

    Bill – I think there is value everywhere, BUT the same unit for the same price at 2nd and garden versus 13th and garden – the value is closer to the PATH.

  19. Bill

    So, you say:

    1. Assume that each area has the exact number of units for sale.

    2. Closer to the PATH is not more expensive.

    3. There is the same choice closer to the PATH as anywhere else.

    no one is saying any of these things

  20. lori

    Thanks Bill. I didn’t say any of those things. I said what bz explained – the older, walk-up style housing (which correctly does attract more young singles) is located along 14th, Wash, upper Park & Willow. That’s where most of the 1 br low-end sales clustered. It makes sense. The less expensive 2 brs cluster in the southwest – less desirable due to location than the Northwest.

    Maybe when I add the higher end units it will be clearer.

    It’s just an attempt to respond to earlier discussions in the comments about what sells where. Take it for what it’s worth. I still hold that at least I’ve got data supporting my opinion. More valuable than “well, in my experience” coming from a person who shopped for one home at one single point in time. I’ve “shopped” for hundreds of homes for buyers over almost 7 years and I still don’t rely on statements with nothing to back them up.

  21. thoughts

    Bill –

    I think Lori did say those things.

    Again, I think there is value everywhere and anywhere, BUT the same unit for the same price at 2nd and garden versus 13th and garden – the value is closer to the PATH.

    Also, Hoboken is one square mile. I do not think it takes a rocket scientist to understand the market. From my experience and research, value has always been closer to the PATH.

    What do I have that backs that up? *PRICE PER SQUARE FOOT*

    Thoughts

  22. Tina

    Interesting follow-up comments to today’s post, Howard.

  23. lori

    Lori says Lori did NOT say those things. You’re reading into what I said. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I said, without evidence to the contrary, with a few exceptions of which we all should be aware if we live in Hoboken the density of housing is pretty even so the density of what is for sale should also be pretty even. I said the lower end units cluster in certain areas – far back s/w, & where the old walk-ups are located.

    You can make assertions all you want – show me the data. Merely saying “price per square foot” isn’t evidence of anything – not even if it’s in CAPS.

  24. Bill

    Tina – if you are suggesting I’m associated with the site – I’m not, I don’t really care if you belive me or not

    thoughts –
    you are reading Lori’s not affirmation of your statements into affirmation of the opposite – it doesn’t work that way.

    I would argue that 7-9 and garder would be more expensive then that 2nd or 13th (I say argue because I dont have data to support)

    and you seem to be intermingling price with value.

    Price is absolute, value is relative.

    If I have a condo that is worth 500k but I paid 600k, that would be worse than a condo that is work 400k that I paid 350k

    Thats all I’m saying.

    Your assertion that that if you don’t buy in your golden circle from the path, that you are screwed is foolish in my opinion.

  25. Tom

    People here talking about value. Strange because I think prices will be 30% to 40% lower in 1 to 2 years. Inventory is bloated and will get worse. Big price reduction is the only remedy.

  26. Tina

    bill – what the hell are you talking about? My post was directed to Howard for the insightful replies he gave in response to readers’ comments for today’s entry. I was not talking to you. Get a grip.

  27. lori

    I don’t know what any either of you are talking about since Howard didn’t reply to anything. I did.

  28. Interested

    same unit, same price – closer to the PATH has more value….

    by the way, i live in mid-town – this is just what i beleive:

    location location location and location

    some places may work better for families, etc., but value and demand = PATH

    you can disagree – that’s okay, but my comments are for potential buyers…..

  29. bill

    I didn’t see any posts by Howard either so I thought she was calling me out as your partner posing under a pseudonym…no biggie

  30. lori

    Everyone’s entitled to his or her opinion. I certainly have mine. Nonetheless, I try to put the facts or data out there first and foremost.

    It would never even have occurred to me to post under a pseudonym. My name and identity have been here from day 1.

  31. Sarah

    Interesting to me that families wouldn’t want to be on Washington. I have a 1.5 yr old and I refuse to move out of my 750 sf 1.5 bdrm to what I consider a significantly less desirable location in the NW or midtown. Whatever I would gain in sq footage, I would lose in storage (I have a deeded 80 sf locker in our basement) and more importantly convenience–I live 1 block from my son’s daycare, 5 mins from the ferry for my 25 min commute to work, 5 mins from the grocery store, and above a deli/grocery. when i run out of milk for my son, I just need to go downstairs. to me, that time savings beats space anyday as a parent.

  32. Recent Buyer

    Sarah – good to hear! :o) We just bought on Washington/7th a month ago. We just moved in recently though. So far, I am experiencing just that – I’m so close to everything and it’s all so convenient. At first, I was very very very concerned about the purchase (for re-sale purposes) because of it being on the main street, but we bought it anyway because we thought it was so cheap (395K, totally renovated 2BR). So far though,I can’t hear a thing in my second floor apt (shocking, I think), and the location seems great so far. I haven’t had a problem with parking on the street and find a spot right away. I have seen many working moms walking their strollers to the daycare across the street – perhaps you’re one of them :o).

  33. TS

    Interested: “same unit, same price – closer to the PATH has more value….”

    Interested, while I see your point for certain types of properties – especially 1bd’s – I disagree that this is a general rule for all types. For instance, and this is just my feel, a brownstone on the north end would be worth more (all else equal) than one downtown.

    I really think that age plays a factor here. I’ve seen many 40- and 50-somethings living uptown in the newer buildings. Downtown, I don’t see people of that age as often. Again, very unscientific but this is just my feel. Some hard data would be nice to back it up. Maybe one of these days I’ll get around to seeing what prices brownstones have sold in the last couple years and their locations.

  34. Bill

    TS – exactly

    I think interested / thoughts theory probably holds more true for lower end properties then it does for higher end properties.

  35. dkzzzz

    I ahve been observing Hoboken market for over 2 years.
    In about 3-4 months I figured tht everything rent or buy within walking distance to Path flyes first.
    Is closer to Path means more expensive? Possibly. However one thing is clear to me : RE close to Path sells faster.
    as far as rentals Uptown is bleeding. Who is interested in living on a bus line? I pass those poor souls every day on my way to work: see them at the bus stop standing in 90 degree heat in their cubical slave uniforms…I feel sorry for them.
    Raising kids in Hoboken argument is also strange to me. Why would anyone wanted their kids to grow up in this dumpy town? Am I missing something?
    Living with kids in an apartment building while paying huge taxes for bad schools and no backyard for them to play?

  36. Recent Buyer

    dkzzzzz – beats raising them in a stuffy suburb where they learn to drive everywhere. I’ve lived in a city all of my life and plan to raise my kids in one.

  37. Tiger

    Seriously dkzzz, you must have the best job EVER! You commute to the city everyday (via the fancy PATH), and work in the most important job – ever! Not only do you sit in your own corner office with a window, but you also can rock jeans and a tee at work and everyone would praise you. Seriously, what do you do?

  38. Sarah

    I agree the schools aren’t great dkzz(yet) past age 5 but living at 10th/Wash, I can be at 3 different parks within 5 mins where there are always other kids to play with. in the burbs, your stuck in your own backyard alone everyday unless you have multiple siblings (but who can afford big families these days. there are so many activities also going on all the time for kids and I love never having to get in the car to go to them.

  39. Sarah

    plus, you pay huge taxes anywhere in Jersey, there is no getting around it. and while the schools in Hoboken may not be as highly regarded as in the burbs, there is a lot more diversity here than in places like Ridgewood, Summit, etc and a lot less attitude.

  40. bz

    dkzzzzz – “Why would anyone wanted their kids to grow up in this dumpy town? Am I missing something?” Yes…you did and you missed so many things that you didn’t even realize, such as stop insulting other people, get a real life, and be open-minded. There are many options regarding raising your children in Hoboken. Don’t just pick a small piece of the whole picture and start to bitch about it.

    I feel sad when people can’t accept the diversity and even refuse to understand the differences in culture and mind-set.

    dkzzzzz – Why are you still interested in Hoboken? Are you living here and own your home? Do you want this place to be better? Or you are one of those kinds of childish people who want everybody and everyplace to be out of luck and only themselves and their own homes to be better? Grow up, please.

  41. thoughts

    I do agree with dkzzzz in regard to the following:

    “However one thing is clear to me : RE close to Path sells faster.”

    dkzzzz was trying to get everyone going with the other BS – let it go….

  42. Eric

    Tiger – dkzzzz doesn’t have a corner office, he’s probably a graphic designer who shows up to work in jeans and sits in a room with 30 other recent college grads making 40k a year.

    That said, I actually tend to agree with him regarding raising kids in Hoboken. Most people tend to leave Hoboken when their kids reach grade-school age. It looks like that attitude is changing now, and maybe by the time I have kids ready to enter public school it will be different. I don’t mean to offend anyone’s parenting choices, there are plenty of reasons ro raise kids in Hoboken. But most people’s thinking right now is in agreement with dkzzzz.

  43. Tiger

    Oh no Eric, dkzzz is the smart one, he works in a recession proof finance job (or so it seems) and can totally afford a high end condo in Hoboken but elects to rent, since he’s smart. The only reason he stays in Hoboken is to save on taxes, again, because he’s smart. Hoboken is just his crash pad. otherwise, he’s totally an NYC guy, possibly even more than New Yorkers.

  44. Recent Buyer

    I grew up in an inner city, attended public schools and somehow managed to do fine in life. If my kids can’t make it bc of Hoboken’s schools, then I’ve clearly done something wrong.

    If noone sticks around, of course the schools will not change. Hopefully, more and more Hoboken residents will stay and participate in the betterment of the school system here.

  45. bz

    “most people’s thinking right now is in agreement with dkzzzz” If you are not a parent, you really don’t know what Hoboken parents are thinking right now. I agree 5 years ago, families did leave this town for suburb. But things are very different now. Just go visit a day care in town, any one, and ask them if they will move away when their toddler reaches school age. I’m a mom, and my answer is no. I’m sure Sarah will agree with me. As Sarah said, suburbs have slowly loosing the appeal of raising family when you look at the cost/benefit. If you have read some of earlier discussions in this blog you might have noticed that people who are trying to pick on Hoboken are usually younger folks with no spouses or/and no kids. Most of them don’t really consider Hoboken as their long-term home. That explained a lot about their attitude and tune here.

    We are talking about real estate trends here. School system is one of the factors that affect the real estate price. Hoboken’s school system has become better and better because residences here (many of them are highly educated and highly paid) decided to stay. I never seen Hoboken so excited about school board election earlier this year and about the mayor election this summer. These are very positive signs that people care and want Hoboken to be a better place to live. That’s said, Hoboken school system might have been at its best stage (Lori knows better than me) since the massive urban development in late 90’s. It will definitely help the town in all measurements.

  46. SJ

    If your priority is spending time with your family instead of on a train then Hoboken is a great place to raise children.

  47. Recent Buyer

    SJ – agreed. This is a major factor for my husband and I. Having lived a near 50 min subway ride from his job, which already requires long hours, I already know what it’s like to lose that extra time with him. The extra half hour in the morning and in the evenings will sure come in handy when we have kids. It already does with the dog walking!

  48. stan

    love Hoboken, however, this is just blatantly wrong.

    “Hoboken’s school system has become better and better because residences here (many of them are highly educated and highly paid) decided to stay.”

    there has been zero change on the middle school and high school level, too many go to private school once 6th grade hits.

  49. thoughts

    These are some great posts – I’m glad my wife and decided to stay in Hoboken. We just don’t like the burbs….

    Now – lets get that movie theater built….I hope its nice

  50. TS

    Stan: “there has been zero change on the middle school and high school level, too many go to private school once 6th grade hits.”

    Stan, one of these days you’re going to say something that’s true. I look forward to that day.

    Saying there have been “zero change on the …high school level” is just simply wrong. I still think Hoboken’s high school is lacking, but to say there hasn’t been improvement shows you don’t know the situation. Last year the New Jersey Monthly named Hoboken High School the 2nd most improved high school in the state – I don’t recall the exact ranking but it went from something like 260/316 schools to 140/316 schools. SOMETHING has to have changed for the better.

  51. nag

    I’m neither married nor do I have children. So, arguably, I have no business posting on this thread. But, I think about this debate from time to time. It seems that if you can afford to live in Hoboken with a teenager who is in high school, that means 13-14 yrs old and up, then you are putting your children in private school. While Hoboken’s schools have improved, they are no where near the likes of the schools in Bergen County, Morris County, etc.

    Knowing that, if I stayed in Hoboken with a middle school/high school aged child, and sent my child to public school, I see it as sacrificing my child’s education to enjoy the conveniences of living close to the city and/or work. If you can afford to live in Hoboken in your dream condo/single family home, you can afford to live in the suburbs and send your child to a very good public school. And as far as getting a good deal goes and the discussion about valuing things, your paying about the same in taxes for a better product, i.e. a better school system, in the suburbs. It’s tricky…I think it would be fabulous if Hoboken’s schools could become as great as those in surrounding suburbs, but no one can argue that it’s there (or even close to there) yet.

    Interesting debate to say the least.

  52. homeboken

    Lori and Howard have already compilied some stats about the schooling situation in Hoboken:

    http://hobokenrealestatenews.com/2009/04/19/love-hoboken-vote-tuesday-2pm-to-9pm-for-board-of-ed-the-school-budget/

    You can start telling me about the school system changing when we the per student costs drop down to $20k per (still way above the statewide average) and teh test scores come up to meet the state-wide average.

  53. Eric

    nag is right. Schools will get better if people stay, but no one wants to start that trend because their kids will not get as good of an education as they could. Is that a prisoner’s dilemma? – it’s been a while since ungrad polisci.

    bz – I understand that the schools are *getting* better. But why wouldn’t you move to a suburb with schools that are far superior to Hoboken’s? It’s not a matter of whether Hoboken’s schools are “good”; there are obviously other schools in neighboring areas that are much better.

    Plus, your argument that I “really don’t know what Hoboken parents are thinking right now” because I don’t have kids is off base. I don’t have kids, but if I did (to echo nag) I know that I’d want them in the best school possible. I also know that none of my friends that have kids are considering staying in this town. And if you think that’s not the general consensus among Hoboken parents, you’re completely out of touch.

  54. stan

    TS-are your kids in the public schools past age 12? judging from your posts and intellect I would imagine you may teach at HHS. Your comments are as usual, not based in the real world. Dismal can only ‘get better’. You have such low standards.

    Hoboken schools are pathetic. You could send every kid to a private college on the per pupil costs. Show me a condo dweller who sends his kids to Hoboken public schools, and I’ll introduce you to santa claus.

    see below. from Lori’s post

    “All three grade schools serving K to 8th Grade failed to meet the 2007-08 Federal benchmark for making adequate yearly progress. State test results for 2007-08 for the middle school grades were extremely weak; the primary and high school grades performed better. For more information, see the New Jersey School Report Card .”

  55. leafgreen99

    After living in Hoboken for close to 20 years I observed that there are a lot more younger children and that people may be choosing to leave once the free pre-school is over or when they realize that the recreation opportunities are limited to a severe lack of playing fields/ice rink/swimming pool etc. I wonder how much that might play into the decision to move away?

  56. leafgreen99

    Whoops, no verb agreement! My apologies.

  57. Sarah

    Eric–good point on the prisoner’s dilemma. You definetly don’t want your kid to be the guinea pig to make the schools better and being the product of two public school teachers, I’m very anti private school. But the main reason I would stay in Hoboken is to the point of an earlier post: time. I would rather spend time with my family (or doing anything really) than commuting on a train. Plus I can go to and from the grocery store in 30 mins along with all the other conveniences I mentioned before. Also, having grown up in a smallish town with only one much older sibling, I found the burbs isolating/lonely. I love walking out of my apartment on to Washington St and there are always people around. I don’t think that makes me selfish as a parent because a) if I’m happy, I’m going to be a better parent and b)my son has no basis for comparison, he’s never lived in the burbs to know what it’s like to have a lot of space.

  58. thoughts

    I don’t know how people are saying that the schools are not getting better. I don’t have kids, but from what I hear from my Hoboken teacher friends is that the yuppy parents have taken over the school board and are making changes. For example, a new (outside) school superintendent has taken over. Also, I hear that the lower grades are already getting better.

    It’s obvious that parents are staying in Hoboken. Just look around at the difference from 10 years ago. Big changes are hapenning….

    Simply stated (just talk to developers) the trend in the US is to live in urban neighborhoods. For example, the NJ developers love the little downtown areas and train lines – Have you seen Morristown lately?

  59. TS

    Stan,

    First off, learn to read. I stated clearly I think Hoboken’s High School is still lacking. Let me clarify for you so you don’t come back putting words in my mouth: Hoboken’s high school still stinks but it has improved over the last 3 years (i.e., there has not been “zero change”).

    Secondly, I cited a well-respected ranking of high schools in the state of NJ. Hoboken’s high school improved drastically from the 2006 to the 2008 period. Again, which doesn’t mean the school is now good or even acceptable but just that it’s improved. Instead of coming back with facts, you made ridiculous comments like “dismal can only get better”. That is untrue by itself. Dismal can remain dismal, but it hasn’t and that’s the entire point.

    In the future before going off on some rant why don’t you try understanding other people’s points, and it would help your cause if you’d lay off the hyperbole because that’s typically what makes you look foolish in the end.

  60. TS

    Additionally, what you cited from Lori does not say that the high school level (which is what we are discussing) failed the yearly progress benchmark. Please think before citing other sources that don’t prove your point.

  61. Eric

    Sarah – I understand your point about time, whether it’s less of a commute or easy access to groceries. No doubt that that convenience makes your life a lot easier and that the additional time you have with your kids benefits both you and them. However, that benefit comes at the cost of a lesser education. Whether Hoboken schools are “good” or “improving” or “dismal” is besides the point. There are exponentially better educational opportunities for your children in other towns. That’s all I was saying. Each family may view the relative benefits of a better education or more time with one’s family in different ways.

  62. lori

    To me, the lesser academic standards or ranking of the Hoboken school system has to be weighed against the broader real life education I believe a child gets growing up in a more diverse and urban neighborhood like Hoboken than, for example, Short Hills even if the ‘traditional’ educational institutions in a homogenous suburb are rated better. There is more to learning than just school.

  63. Bill

    seriously…. where will a kid learn about kick backs in Chatham??

    I keed I keed

  64. nag

    hahah – good one Bill.

    To Lori’s post, yes, there is value to the real world vs. traditional education concept. My college professor always said, “some of the best learning is done outside the classroom.” I couldn’t agree more…but I think that is after you get the basics down in high school.

    These days, everyone goes to college, so it’s not about just making it through high school and getting into a college…it’s about getting into a good college, so you can get a good job or go on to a good graduate school. Getting into a top college is much easier if you come from a private school or a really good public school. I’m inclined to agree with the other posts about favoring public to private schools, so that means moving to a Short Hills or a Ramsey so your children have the benefit of AP classes and better college prospects. Sure, there are some fortunate high schoolers from urban areas who get into great colleges and go on to live successful lives, but that is the exception. On the other hand, for the high schoolers over at Northern Highlands or Ridgewood, getting into a top college is the norm.

  65. dkzzzz

    One cannot underestimate the value of diversity(making wise face and raising a finger).
    Kids thrive in diverse urban environment, they learn from their peers valuable lessons that will help them to become more well-rounded individuals in a future…Did I make anyone nauseas?
    Seriously, stop automatically repeating worn out platitudes and start thinking on your own. After all that is what school education should have taught you.

  66. nag

    The only worn-out slogan I see is the one with which you opened your post. “School education” did teach me a lot of things, and one of them is that getting into and attending the best college you can is very, very important. Diversity can be found in suburbs. And the real diversity you are describing, where kids actually benefit from it and become more well-rounded people, is found in colleges in its most extreme.

    My point is that it is easier, much easier, to get into the best possible college you can if you have attended a blue ribbon school rather than Hoboken High. I’m not saying it cannot be done, of course it can, it’s just more difficult. Personally, I would not want to make it more difficult for my child. If you think it’s just as easy coming from Hoboken High as it is coming from Glen Ridge High, I really don’t know what I can say to that. If you are suggesting college is not necessary so who cares where you get your formal high school education, again, I don’t know what to say to that either.

    So, my question is, do you think you should sacrifice your child’s formal education so that your child can grow up in a “diverse” urban area? I don’t think the benefit of diversity for a high schooler is worth the risk to their academic future. Would you take that risk?

  67. Recent Buyer

    You guys are talking about Hoboken schools like a student gets shot there every week. Trust me, your kids WILL be fine if they attend schools in Hoboken. I grew up in Newark and went to a top ten law school. (Now, I’m going to get creamed for bragging – I’m trying to make a point.) No, I didn’t go to Harvard. No, I didn’t get an 800 on my SATs – did any of you guys who went to suburban high schools? No, I don’t work for a large law firm. Yet, I’m happy and well-educated.

    I wonder how many kids from these “elite” high schools you guys are talking about end up ivy league schools?

    Not go to ivy league school? Oh, the horror. I hope your kids don’t get lost in the sea of competition at some of these schools.

  68. Helping Hoboken Moms Sell Their Condos » Let’s talk about schools

    […] being said, let’s address the myth that a suburban education is automatically better. Of my nine cousins who went through the superb Scarsdale school system, three are doctors. The […]

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