2009 Aug 10th

What Condos Sold Where in Hoboken?

Location Location Location

We’ve had quite a bit of discussion on this board about location.  As I mentioned in a comment, I thought it would be interesting to see what has sold this year, and where it those condo units are located in Hoboken. 

So here you go – Part 1 of the analysis.  The map will show 1 br condos that sold for up to $345,000 (red dots) and 2 brs that sold for up to $499,000 (green dots) that have closed since January 1 this year.  I chose those price cut-offs as I believe they represent the lower priced 1 brs and 2 or more brs.

In a few days, I’ll add the more expensive units (1 brs over $345,000 and 2brs over $499,000).  For now, it is interesting to see where they cluster. 

To me, it looks like the 1 brs are located in the southwest section of town and along Washington and upper Park and 14th Street.  My explanation for this would be that either that is the less desirable part of town or that is where the older, less expensive housing stock is located.  Perhaps it is a combination of both.  The larger units tend to be scattered with the exception of the “9th Street corridor“.  Again, the reason for the lack of sales in the 9th St. corridor is that this is where the more expensive, newer units with parking and elevators tend to be located.  Draw your own conclusions.

To see the map, please complete the little form below.  Thanks.

  1. nag

    I’m neither married nor do I have children. So, arguably, I have no business posting on this thread. But, I think about this debate from time to time. It seems that if you can afford to live in Hoboken with a teenager who is in high school, that means 13-14 yrs old and up, then you are putting your children in private school. While Hoboken’s schools have improved, they are no where near the likes of the schools in Bergen County, Morris County, etc.

    Knowing that, if I stayed in Hoboken with a middle school/high school aged child, and sent my child to public school, I see it as sacrificing my child’s education to enjoy the conveniences of living close to the city and/or work. If you can afford to live in Hoboken in your dream condo/single family home, you can afford to live in the suburbs and send your child to a very good public school. And as far as getting a good deal goes and the discussion about valuing things, your paying about the same in taxes for a better product, i.e. a better school system, in the suburbs. It’s tricky…I think it would be fabulous if Hoboken’s schools could become as great as those in surrounding suburbs, but no one can argue that it’s there (or even close to there) yet.

    Interesting debate to say the least.

  2. homeboken

    Lori and Howard have already compilied some stats about the schooling situation in Hoboken:

    http://hobokenrealestatenews.com/2009/04/19/love-hoboken-vote-tuesday-2pm-to-9pm-for-board-of-ed-the-school-budget/

    You can start telling me about the school system changing when we the per student costs drop down to $20k per (still way above the statewide average) and teh test scores come up to meet the state-wide average.

  3. Eric

    nag is right. Schools will get better if people stay, but no one wants to start that trend because their kids will not get as good of an education as they could. Is that a prisoner’s dilemma? – it’s been a while since ungrad polisci.

    bz – I understand that the schools are *getting* better. But why wouldn’t you move to a suburb with schools that are far superior to Hoboken’s? It’s not a matter of whether Hoboken’s schools are “good”; there are obviously other schools in neighboring areas that are much better.

    Plus, your argument that I “really don’t know what Hoboken parents are thinking right now” because I don’t have kids is off base. I don’t have kids, but if I did (to echo nag) I know that I’d want them in the best school possible. I also know that none of my friends that have kids are considering staying in this town. And if you think that’s not the general consensus among Hoboken parents, you’re completely out of touch.

  4. stan

    TS-are your kids in the public schools past age 12? judging from your posts and intellect I would imagine you may teach at HHS. Your comments are as usual, not based in the real world. Dismal can only ‘get better’. You have such low standards.

    Hoboken schools are pathetic. You could send every kid to a private college on the per pupil costs. Show me a condo dweller who sends his kids to Hoboken public schools, and I’ll introduce you to santa claus.

    see below. from Lori’s post

    “All three grade schools serving K to 8th Grade failed to meet the 2007-08 Federal benchmark for making adequate yearly progress. State test results for 2007-08 for the middle school grades were extremely weak; the primary and high school grades performed better. For more information, see the New Jersey School Report Card .”

  5. leafgreen99

    After living in Hoboken for close to 20 years I observed that there are a lot more younger children and that people may be choosing to leave once the free pre-school is over or when they realize that the recreation opportunities are limited to a severe lack of playing fields/ice rink/swimming pool etc. I wonder how much that might play into the decision to move away?

  6. leafgreen99

    Whoops, no verb agreement! My apologies.

  7. Sarah

    Eric–good point on the prisoner’s dilemma. You definetly don’t want your kid to be the guinea pig to make the schools better and being the product of two public school teachers, I’m very anti private school. But the main reason I would stay in Hoboken is to the point of an earlier post: time. I would rather spend time with my family (or doing anything really) than commuting on a train. Plus I can go to and from the grocery store in 30 mins along with all the other conveniences I mentioned before. Also, having grown up in a smallish town with only one much older sibling, I found the burbs isolating/lonely. I love walking out of my apartment on to Washington St and there are always people around. I don’t think that makes me selfish as a parent because a) if I’m happy, I’m going to be a better parent and b)my son has no basis for comparison, he’s never lived in the burbs to know what it’s like to have a lot of space.

  8. thoughts

    I don’t know how people are saying that the schools are not getting better. I don’t have kids, but from what I hear from my Hoboken teacher friends is that the yuppy parents have taken over the school board and are making changes. For example, a new (outside) school superintendent has taken over. Also, I hear that the lower grades are already getting better.

    It’s obvious that parents are staying in Hoboken. Just look around at the difference from 10 years ago. Big changes are hapenning….

    Simply stated (just talk to developers) the trend in the US is to live in urban neighborhoods. For example, the NJ developers love the little downtown areas and train lines – Have you seen Morristown lately?

  9. TS

    Stan,

    First off, learn to read. I stated clearly I think Hoboken’s High School is still lacking. Let me clarify for you so you don’t come back putting words in my mouth: Hoboken’s high school still stinks but it has improved over the last 3 years (i.e., there has not been “zero change”).

    Secondly, I cited a well-respected ranking of high schools in the state of NJ. Hoboken’s high school improved drastically from the 2006 to the 2008 period. Again, which doesn’t mean the school is now good or even acceptable but just that it’s improved. Instead of coming back with facts, you made ridiculous comments like “dismal can only get better”. That is untrue by itself. Dismal can remain dismal, but it hasn’t and that’s the entire point.

    In the future before going off on some rant why don’t you try understanding other people’s points, and it would help your cause if you’d lay off the hyperbole because that’s typically what makes you look foolish in the end.

  10. TS

    Additionally, what you cited from Lori does not say that the high school level (which is what we are discussing) failed the yearly progress benchmark. Please think before citing other sources that don’t prove your point.

  11. Eric

    Sarah – I understand your point about time, whether it’s less of a commute or easy access to groceries. No doubt that that convenience makes your life a lot easier and that the additional time you have with your kids benefits both you and them. However, that benefit comes at the cost of a lesser education. Whether Hoboken schools are “good” or “improving” or “dismal” is besides the point. There are exponentially better educational opportunities for your children in other towns. That’s all I was saying. Each family may view the relative benefits of a better education or more time with one’s family in different ways.

  12. lori

    To me, the lesser academic standards or ranking of the Hoboken school system has to be weighed against the broader real life education I believe a child gets growing up in a more diverse and urban neighborhood like Hoboken than, for example, Short Hills even if the ‘traditional’ educational institutions in a homogenous suburb are rated better. There is more to learning than just school.

  13. Bill

    seriously…. where will a kid learn about kick backs in Chatham??

    I keed I keed

  14. nag

    hahah – good one Bill.

    To Lori’s post, yes, there is value to the real world vs. traditional education concept. My college professor always said, “some of the best learning is done outside the classroom.” I couldn’t agree more…but I think that is after you get the basics down in high school.

    These days, everyone goes to college, so it’s not about just making it through high school and getting into a college…it’s about getting into a good college, so you can get a good job or go on to a good graduate school. Getting into a top college is much easier if you come from a private school or a really good public school. I’m inclined to agree with the other posts about favoring public to private schools, so that means moving to a Short Hills or a Ramsey so your children have the benefit of AP classes and better college prospects. Sure, there are some fortunate high schoolers from urban areas who get into great colleges and go on to live successful lives, but that is the exception. On the other hand, for the high schoolers over at Northern Highlands or Ridgewood, getting into a top college is the norm.

  15. dkzzzz

    One cannot underestimate the value of diversity(making wise face and raising a finger).
    Kids thrive in diverse urban environment, they learn from their peers valuable lessons that will help them to become more well-rounded individuals in a future…Did I make anyone nauseas?
    Seriously, stop automatically repeating worn out platitudes and start thinking on your own. After all that is what school education should have taught you.

  16. nag

    The only worn-out slogan I see is the one with which you opened your post. “School education” did teach me a lot of things, and one of them is that getting into and attending the best college you can is very, very important. Diversity can be found in suburbs. And the real diversity you are describing, where kids actually benefit from it and become more well-rounded people, is found in colleges in its most extreme.

    My point is that it is easier, much easier, to get into the best possible college you can if you have attended a blue ribbon school rather than Hoboken High. I’m not saying it cannot be done, of course it can, it’s just more difficult. Personally, I would not want to make it more difficult for my child. If you think it’s just as easy coming from Hoboken High as it is coming from Glen Ridge High, I really don’t know what I can say to that. If you are suggesting college is not necessary so who cares where you get your formal high school education, again, I don’t know what to say to that either.

    So, my question is, do you think you should sacrifice your child’s formal education so that your child can grow up in a “diverse” urban area? I don’t think the benefit of diversity for a high schooler is worth the risk to their academic future. Would you take that risk?

  17. Recent Buyer

    You guys are talking about Hoboken schools like a student gets shot there every week. Trust me, your kids WILL be fine if they attend schools in Hoboken. I grew up in Newark and went to a top ten law school. (Now, I’m going to get creamed for bragging – I’m trying to make a point.) No, I didn’t go to Harvard. No, I didn’t get an 800 on my SATs – did any of you guys who went to suburban high schools? No, I don’t work for a large law firm. Yet, I’m happy and well-educated.

    I wonder how many kids from these “elite” high schools you guys are talking about end up ivy league schools?

    Not go to ivy league school? Oh, the horror. I hope your kids don’t get lost in the sea of competition at some of these schools.

  18. Helping Hoboken Moms Sell Their Condos » Let’s talk about schools

    […] being said, let’s address the myth that a suburban education is automatically better. Of my nine cousins who went through the superb Scarsdale school system, three are doctors. The […]

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